>>> Thinking of looking at this: <<<
An XJS coupe? ... I thought you said you wasn't weird comrade!
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1994 Jag XJS, "repatriated"
Current owner restores old Citroens for a living, has a fabulous old DS and an SM! in his garage, but himself drives XJSs
Sold originally by Jaguar Japan Ltd. all paperwork present
In immaculate condition, 90,000 km on the clock
Now, I know (i visit Japan 2 - 3 times every year), that Jags, BMWs, and original Minis have a massive following out there, they are bought by people who really appreciate them, and I for one am certainly not put off by the Japanese connection.
Condition is so good, no rust that I could find, including getting carpets up.
Original tool kit
Current owner had the Japanese radio removed and replaced with Jag original for this model, brand new unit, not Kenwood./ Sony etc, but the right model for the car
tyres are new, Pirelli P6000s so can't check for unusual tyre wear
Air mass sensor and other items replaced with Jag original parts recently.
Here's something...
the car is higher spec than UK "celebration" models, with the following extras:
Really good trip computer in centre console
Sports mode gearbox
Front headlamp washers
Cruise Control
I can't find any late XJS 4.0litres with those on from UK original stock.
Drives nicely, automatic was a bit "lazy" i thought, but they often are, for some reason only Japanese sports cars I have found to have really responsive traditional autos.
driving position felt very dated, but the car was launched in 1975. You site very close to windscreen, dials, and steering wheel.
Very little room in back, but thats not the point
visibility out the back horrendous, parking sensors a MUST
I loved it, it felt totally sorted
So the car checks out, and is in original condition, where parts have been needed origina Jag bits used.
Would the KM/H dials, and LM tach meter put off anyone if I come to resell in a few years? Doesn't bother me, cos they are the original, and if changed the car is no longer in original condition and history starts getting questioned
Guy
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 29/06/2009 at 13:38
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visibility out the back horrendous parking sensors a MUST
So the car checks out and is in original condition where parts have been needed origina Jag bits used. Would the KM/H dials and LM tach meter put off anyone if I come to resell in a few years? Doesn't bother me cos they are the original and if changed the car is no longer in original condition and history starts getting questioned
Id rather put MPH clocks in..... yes the car IS original at the min, but WONT be if you fit parking sensors....
IMO you need to improve the useability of the car, or leave it totally alone......
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yes i did give it a good drive (the Maserati that is)
A couple of things...
1) the aircon wasn't working. I once had a FIAT with non working aircon, I spent £100s on it with aircon specialists but the best I got was the the gas would last 6 weeks before leaking away, which albeit an improvement over t 2 days when I bought the car told me that it wasn't worth pursuing. I had spent more than the car was worth.
Since apparently thousands had been spent on this QPIV, and since the dealer had had it in stock for a while, I was suspicous that the Aircon was not going to be an easy fix, otherwsie it would have been done already!
2) when I unlocked the steering column to adjust its height before driving, it fell really heavily on to my lap, when adjusted and re-locked there was some up/down "play" in it, you could wobble the steering column around a little, when stationary... you can imagine how it behaved when moving.
Power delivery though was beautifully smooth and progressive, gear changes lovely from the auto box, but the above 2 issues and the rather wierd driving position put me off sufficiently
Guy
So>> did you give it a good drive?remember the driving position will feel a bit odd in comparison to something modern im sorry you didnt like it
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Hi Guy,
I went down the XJS route (5.3 convertible - see other threads on here under 'Jags' from the drop down menu above from me and another chap who caught the same bug).
They are very good cars, particularly the later versions (mine is a pre-facelift 1990). The latest versions were effectively a DB7 under an XJS skin. A Celebration (although never actually badged as such) is ideal, and talking to the experts a 4.0 is a brilliant engine (and a lot less thirsty than my 5.3).
I personally would not touch an import for purely personal reasons surrounding retained value. Why buy a car with speedo / other differences (which if not changed are illegal) and possibly not undertreated to the same european standards (we salt our roads, I do not think the Japanese do theirs) when you could have a choice of dozens of perfect UK spec cars. I looked at a Golf import a while ago and suddenly thought "why am I buying an import for a few pounds less than a UK spec car. What if simple things like some spare parts have to come from Japan because of somethiong specifically fitted for that market?
As far as I know all UK cars got the trip computer, Cruise control, sport button auto gearbox as standard. I would be very suprised of they were missing. Even my 1990 model has the computer and cruise.
There are a load of late XJ-S's on Ebay, some immaculate examples too. Most important thing is to jack them up (or get them on a ramp if you can) to inspect underneath (rust and condition of inboard brakes, radius arms, suspension, etc).
There are some superb examples out there for not too much money. Look at Jaguar World magazine classifieds (seek a good newsagent) and look at joining the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club too.
The one in your link seemed on the pricey side of that was the import.
Convertibles more expensive but hold their value better. Do not expect children over the age of 8 to fit in the rear seats of the convertible without a few complaints though (worse on the XK8), not sure about the coupe.
Don't dismiss the 5.3 V12 though. Yes it will do 22-23mpg if taken gently against the near 30mpg of the 4.0, but the V12 is bomb-proof and sooooo creamy smooth to drive.
They are great cars and I really encourage you to take the plunge. Classic lines, good parts availability, cheap to insure and tax and lots of specialists near you no doubt. Be very interested to hear how you get on.
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"As far as I know all UK cars got the trip computer, Cruise control, sport button auto gearbox as standard. I would be very suprised of they were missing. Even my 1990 model has the computer and cruise."
No... i think maybe/maybe not... I have looked at several 4.0 Celebrations on Autotrader and EBAY, they mostly have a clock see item number 170329641455 above the radio where the one I drove had a very sophisticated trip computer thingy
this one 160314349476, has the trip computer but just a jaguar logo thingy stuck on the wood trim where the one I saw had the cruise control buttons.
I haven't seen any with the headlamp washers that the one i saw had.
Convertible will be a non starter (no garage, driveway parking only)
lots of short round town trips are getting me only 20ish mpg out of my CLK when i get 30 on the Mways once in while, so goodness only knows what i would get out of the V12, I'm not even thinking about it.
I had reservations about the auto box, then found....
www.pistonheads.co.uk/sales/1026392.htm
not far from me, it has been stored in a "bubble" by an enthusiast, it is a manual - how rare is that! might go and look at it later.
Guy
Edited by Webmaster on 02/07/2009 at 02:13
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good thread this guy,so much more interesting than euroboxes made of soggy cardboard
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Hi Guy,
Nice looking car and the manual is indeed a rarity (I read an interesting article the other day about the even rarer manual V12 which you can just get it to pull from a standing start in top gear and just keep it in that one gear up to its 150mph top speed!!!). Enough about V12's though, you are being pretty sensible looking at the other options.
The 3.6 is no slouch.
The picture shows this car as also a pre-face lift. No bad thing but do still do that check underneath. It may be low miles and full serice history but rust can still be a problem.
It is the ones like this with fully lavished history that hold their value and can make them a great buy.
If you look at KWE's website (the guys that you can spend a fortune modernising your XJ-S with) you will see that they offer an inspection service (about £150 I think). Might be worth investing in.
Oh, also check if the air-con still works as the gas has been discontinued now and not all new gasses will work in the unit without new seals, etc.
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it is a 20 year old car, and it suprises me (having barely paid any notice to XJS until recently) that the 1994 facelift really was MAJOR update. I think this 1990 model looks very dated, inside too, lots more black plastic, yet the one I saw yesterday did not look dated, though the driving position certainly felt it!
Decisions Decisions! got my head is spinning! I wish I had driven the Auto 4.0 a little longer.
I didn't know the area, so relied on sellers directions, and we were back at his house a little early for comfort- the auto box left more questions than answers in my head, one time I used the kick down which responded fine, then it changed up as I was still accelerating up an incline, I remember thinking "no... don't change up yet!"
Guy
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That 3.6 1990 Manual, has only ever had 1 owner !!!! they told me he kept it in a bubble.
How extraordinary is that!
Guy
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Bubble? A breathable one?
It is not the number of owners but the quality of the owner. Do go and have a look at this 3.6 if you can. A 1 owner 36,000 mile manual example will be quite rare indeed and may be a little more valuable even.
The facelift was a major change. I was not joking when I mentioned the DB7 which I beleive was prettymuch a rebodied face-lift XJS. Nearly every panel changed and the quality was better.
Having said that a superb pre-face lift might be a better buy than a good face lift version. With 10-20 year old cars there can be a huge ammount of variation.
I am very happy with my pre-face lift version and I consider it to be a true XJ-S, rather than the car Jaguar kept going because they did not have the money / time to bring the XK8 onto the market sooner. Having said that, if I could have afforded a face-lift convertible from 1994 /95 I would be saying that they are a far superior car to the pre-face lift and give you a number of reasons why.
With a special 'treat' car like this you buy the one that rules your heart, not the one you would think others will suggest.
I thought I had a good one, did no research and took a flyer on it. Recent discussions with the local club and some of their spanner twirlers has revealed I have an exceptional example, worth 30% more than I paid for it. I even won the local 'bonnets up' competition in it and have been asked to put it on display at the Eastbourne Motor Show!
So don't worry about a preface lift being a problem. That 3.6 looks like a peach and if it has been looked after properly (fluid changes and TLC under the chassis as well as polish on the top it could be a beauty.
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Hi Guy,
Go to Ebay and type XJ-S into the search engine (note the hyphen is important). At £6,995 is a Flamenco Red 6.0 litre (don't dismiss it for the fuel consumption yet!!!) which looks like a stunner.
The saving you are making against a £8-9k version can be used to fund the extra petrol!
The hyphen officially disappeared from the XJ-S at the point of the face-lift and it became the XJS. Not everyone listing these on Ebay is aware of the difference and you will see hidden gems like these lurking in the wrong place.
The benefit with the larger engines is that you get every goody fitted. Electric heated seats, airbags (which note are not on the prefacelifts) and lots of other niceties.
This one looks exceptional. The engine is bombproof being a bored out version of the V12 5.3 litre that appeared in the E type and in the XJ-S's until the mid 90's.
TWR racing bored the 5.3 to 6.0 litres with no problem for racing (took them up to circa 500hp with no loss of reliability) and Jaguar themselves then did this for the last V12 XJS's, and parts are readily available if you did have a problem in the future.
Epic car.
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yes it looks Epic, but I have not got the time to go that part of the country to view it I think, limited to evenings, Saturday afternoons, and bit of Sundays :-(
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Thats near me too Guy..... looks a nice one!
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Are you offering to check it out for me?
Nice car but pretty terrible photos, if I had one of those for sale I would at least take some of the time spent creating the listing on posting hi-res in focus photos.
Guy
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Yes Guy.... I could have a quick look for you... I normally pass the dealer on my way home.
If you contact the mods, im sure they could pass you my email addy.
hope to hear from you later.
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Guy... have looked at the one in Penn, would like to talk to you directly, if your interested....
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Instead of searching xj-s, just go to ebay motors, select Jaguar, select XJS.
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I think I have exhausted all possible searches
found 2 more quite close to me, wanted to go this evening to look at them
first one "aircon wasn't working it has just gone off to have it fixed"
second one "we got it in today, and have sent it to the workshop to be checked over"
Patience eh!
the one I saw yesterday (Japanese re-patriation) was/is a damm fine example, it has been registered in the UK for nearly a year, e.g. if I get an insurance quote, I typed in the reg number and up it came.
Whats this about the speedo being illegal?
It is not as if I can't think in KMH, 30/50, 50/80, 70/110 approx...
Guy
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>>> yes it looks Epic, but I have not got the time to go that part of the country to view it I think <<<
Although I'm no fan of the coupe - this 6 ltr job on eBay is an absolute peach comrade and in *beyond* mint condition + only 1 owner - jeeeeeeeeeeeeeez!
I'd buy the critter just on the ad alone :)
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Have you also looked on :
www.carandclassic.co.uk/
"first one "aircon wasn't working it has just gone off to have it fixed""
I once asked an 'XJ-S specialist' about the aircon on one (a low mileage, one owner, FSH car) and he said something along the lines of it never does work on these cars. Don't know how much truth there is in that though. I gather it's expensive to fix though. BiL had a facelift XJS on a J plate about six years ago and he never bothered getting his aircon sorted out. Think it was rather more complicated than a simple re-gas.
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good website , lots more XJS's
even a post face lift 4.0 manual in sussex, WOW!
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post face lift 4.0 manual in sussex, WOW!
Have a word with mike hannon.
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Thanks...
Edited by guygamps on 30/06/2009 at 09:51
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That red one on eBay certainly looks nice. But... just look at the work that has been necessary. Every possible fluid has leaked from the car within the first five years of ownership. Often more than once...
Enough to put you off them... nice as they are (I nearly bought one last year, budget 1.5k. "Fortunately" I realised it was too small to put a washing machine in the boot.)
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yes I spotted that too..
I think the 4.0 AJ16 is a simpler engine by far service wise...
Guy
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Would someone kindly inform me - what is so wrong with an XK8 please?
I know I'm an old geezer (56) but I haven't quite lost the plot yet (or have I)
I think the XK8 looks gr8 - reminds me (a bit) of my old 240Z :)
As for the XJ-S ... it really *must* be a convertible or nuffink!
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Anyone know anything about clarkesjaguars in Sussex, they seem to have about 80 XJS...
Are they to be trusted? i.e are they selling well cared for and well prepared XJSs with good history or are they putting together cars from bits of each other (well it must be tempting when you have 80 in stock... car 1 needs something... rob the bits from car 2.
Any feedback on them would be very handy, they have a couple of manuals I am thinking of going down on Thursday to see them
Guy
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dont put down a place that robs peter to make paul perfect
i ran a one make place for years and it suited me and my customers
we all saved money
especially me
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I am not putting them down, far from it, simply seeking some feedback if anyone has dealt with them.
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Hi Guy,
Have you read the two other threads directly related to XJS's from the drop down menus above? I live 2 miles from Clarkes and have posted some comments on my experience with them.
I have got friendly with a lot of local Jag people (mainly local owners) through the local East Sussex JEC and their general thoughts are that they would tend not to use them for parts and servicing / work, prefering other local specialists. A couple of guys I spoke with have tried with Clarkes and are still waiting for a call back or quote regarding parts or servicing (I am still waiting myself nearly 4 months on for the quote I actually asked for, rather than the one they sent that did not include the work they thought was urgent and essential, but did include things that could be done at a later date. They still have not told me if the quote they did send includes VAT or not).
I went there and saw a few of the cars for sale. They are priced high for what they are (in my very humble opinion), but it would be fair to expect that from someone specialising in a particular make and model.
You are certainly getting a lot of choice and Dave there is very knowledgeable and friendly. The local view from people I spoke with within the club was that the car I paid £7,500 for on Ebay would have been up at £12,000 at Clarkes.
And fair play to them, that is business and if they can get that then good luck to them. Not a critisism, just an observation. How based in fact it might be is hard to tell as I have only owned one for 4 months!!!
Also Guy, it looks like another poster on here has seen the 6.0 one and is trying to get in touch with you. Have you seen his post?
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I had a long chat this morning with Dave at Clarkes - he has been telling me about the preparation work they do on their cars before selling them... sounds pretty extensive, i guess thats why they are more than buying one from other sources (Clarkes would claim).
You are right though to point out that a bargain found elsewhere (and they do indeed exist) is likely to cost several £K more from Clarkes.
Re the red one, I have just seen the post from "Swiss Tony",
"swiss" ... may I call you that... not sure how we get in touch, i don't mind putting up my e-mail address to forum readers ( you are a very helpful lot!) here it is....
snip
if the moderators remove it, then we can look at another way. if I get loads of spam or unsolited junk, then so be it, I already do!
So back to Clarkes, I really want to drive a 4.0 manual, and they have one, what with their wide stock list, and from what Dave has said, I will also be able to drive a well prepared 4.0 Auto (to compare with the one I drove on Saturday). I will be very interesting to drive them back to back.
Edited by rtj70 on 01/07/2009 at 21:45
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Note to Mods, if you can remove Guys email addy that will be great.... cheers!
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Not trying to punt this to you, but I'll mention in case it's of interest - a car-enthusiast friend is selling a few cars just now including an M plate (93/94?) XJ12 6.0 that looks fairly tidy, and is probably a third of the price of the Maserati.
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Thanks, where is the V12 being advertised, I might have seen it (the ad that is_
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I don't think it's been advertised - I'll email you the contact details.
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Let us know how you get on Guy. I would love to hear what you think of the cars at Clarkes and also if you had any joy with the red 6.0 (or Manatee's XJ12 too!).
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So this is how I got on...
On arrival, the specific car I wanted to see was ready and waiting for me parked on the grass driveway as I came in, looking fine.
Dave introduced himself and showed me around, in their storage area which is basically a barn, there were two floors of cars, some really superb, including a minter concourse 16,000 mile one. Some very rare ones, some stock ones. Knowing I was about to drive a particular model, I could see that there were several others I might have been interested in.
Before driving the "main event" which is a 4.0 manual, I wanted to drive a properly sorted 4.- Auto to compare with the one I drove (Japanese import) last week. Dave had one ready.
I drove it, and was far happier with it than the one I drove last week, but still hankered after the manual gear change.
So then I dropped in to the manual. Dave drove it first, by good it shifts! not that the auto was a slouch. I got in and was instantly smitten, so much more involving to drive.
The car is a 1995 XJS Celebration. Now one thing I have learnt is that quite a lot of XJS's advertised as Celebrations, aren't. This one certainly is (e.g. half wood steering wheel). The engine is tthe 4.0 AJ16, Dave tells me (and I have since had confirmed) that this spec of car rides on the same suspension set up as a DB7, or is it that thr DB7 runs on XJS running gear, but it certainly handled well. teh gearbox is Gertrag, and was lovely.
The car had a new engine and gearbox within the last 30,000 miles, when asked why the previous owner told Dave that he wanted to drive the car to/from Europe with the Jaguar Enthusiast Club and didn't want the risk of being embarrassed by a breakdown. There are receipts galore for all the Jag specialist work done on it in the last few years, including some pretty tricky but often required pieces of maintenance.
So the issue was not do i like the car, but more - is Clarkes overcharging. The asking price is approx twice that of several nice condition autos around, but I have not ever seen a 4.0 manual celebration at all elsewjere. So the premium for a manual is a hard one to price. I guess it is worth what you are prepared to pay!
So in order to make that decision (pay Clarkes pricing or walk away and settle for an auto from any number of sources) came down to what I could extract out of them by way of works on the car before delivery.
Here is the list of things I negotiated included in the price:
1. Replace windscreen with new
2. Front anti roll bar drop links and bushes
3. Front bake discs (if required) and pads
4. Rear brake discs (If required) and pads
5. Rear radius arms and bushes if needed (believed to be relative new)
6. Shock absorbers and springs if needed, though there are receipts for recent replacements.
7. Air conditioning system complete replacement and new parts fitted where needed
8. Inspect and replace auxiliary and drive belts if needed
9. Drain coolant and replace with 50/50 bluecol mixture
10. Good condition P6000 tyres (i.e. replace current if needed)
11. Diamond cut and highly polish the existing 5 spoke wheels
12. Replace wood surround in centre console and re mount the trip computer
13. Fit genuine Jaguar CD changer in rear
14. Replace gear knob with either wood or polished alloy Jaguar knob
15. Re-spray bonnet and drivers side (below stripe)
16. Machine polish all of vehicle (and front bumper)
17. Carry out waxoyl treatment to underside and vulnerable places
18. 4 Wheel laser alignment
19. Obtain 12 months MOT
Carry out service, plugs, oil, oil filter, air filter, grease and bearings check diff and top Up as needed. Grease windows, door locks, clean aerial, change batteries in Remote control etc
When I came home I rang Sean at Charlesworth Classics, he will be my local service chap for the car, his view is that there is £4 - £6K of work there and that if done well, the car will start its ownership with me compeltely sorted. hence the asking price (£12K) is not that unreasonable. His view as well is that manual will be very desirable and hold this value of I look after it (which I will).
So I did the deal! GULP!
I want to say a huge thanks to John Kaye and Tony, in the end I decided that the V12 would be complete overkill for me, especially after driving the 4.0 manual. Both cars you have found sound great and will sell I am sure.
I am aware that I have paid top dollar, I could probably have got a very nice XJS for 4 to 5 grand elsewhere, but bearig in mind the rarity of the manual celebration spec, and the works now being done to the car, I can't help but feel excited!
Guy
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Hi Guy,
Congratulations!! I cannot see the car on their stock list, only a Black 1992 4.0 for £6,500.
What colour did you get?
If you are happy with the car and the deal what more could you want. I would urge you (as would Dave at Clarkes I am sure) to get an agreed value insurance policy as a normal car insurance policy will only pay out the £5-6k you can buy other XJS's for. Join the JEC too and you will get a discount on your insurance with their 'partners'. Footman James is one and Adrian Flux (who I used) is another. I got my 5.3 convertible insured at a value of £12,500 (5,000 mile comprehensive policy) as a person who has not had any no claims discount (company cars for the last 13 years) and my wife also insured, for just £230 (I am 39).
It would have been a good idea maybe to get the car you are buying up on ramps there to decide what actually does and does not need doing within the price agreed, as there appears to be a lot of things you describe as 'if required'. A sellers view of what is required and a buyers may be slightly different, and do check when you collect the car what has and has not been done. Again up on ramps (they have at least two sets there) to make sure you are happy if they have not done anything.
Great cars though. I have not driven a manual version having been lulled into the relaxation the auto box gives with the V12 engine. I have too many gear changes to make in my company car on a daily basis that makes not having to do it at the weekend a pleasant change.
It is possible that you might not want to get involved with the Jaguar 'scene' (clubs, event, etc), but do give it a look first. I was a little reticent to start with but they are a big club (the JEC) with 20,000 members and there are local meetings all over the country with different local events that may be of interest. Their monthly magazine is detailed and will list all sorts of things about the cars and events.
Personally I go to ones that benefit me, and have been to a couple of classic car shows where I have had preferential entry prices for me and the family to places that I would ordinarily have visited at full price. Some of the people are young enthusaiasts (not all oldies!) and the events they do for you locally might be of interest to you. Certainly the knowledge and experience of other members will be perhaps of interest in the future.
Lot's of old car magazines and articles on Ebay as well old brochures, parts catalogues, parts and adornments, etc.
Are you based in Sussex or Surrey? There will be a few of us from the East Sussex JEC at the Eastbourne Motor Show this coming weekend if you want to say hello. We will have 5 cars on display at least including mine and a racing XJS too I believe.
So welcome to XJS ownership! I am besotted and I think Mike Hannon on here is too (see seperate thread from him on his 6.0).
I beleive there is a bit of a renaisance with them becoming appreciating classics now (wishful thinking?) so you can say you are helping set the trend.
When do you collect it?
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Well the car has 3 weeks of work to be done to it, at a pinch it would be ready before I go on holiday, but whats the point in rushing. I go away on July 29th, and after my holiday go to India on business, not back home til end of August, so won't pick the car up til then
the car itself is not listed on their site, I called about the black one you saw, and DC told me about this other one he had just got in. I was first to see it, and drove it i the condition it arrived in.
I am not local to Clarkes, it tool me 2hrs 20mins to get home, and I took a day off work to go there, drive the cars and come back. I accept what you say about getting my own up on the ramp, and I was going to ask them to do that but ran out of time. I did ask them to keep a digitial camera with them and take snaps all the way "before and after" and e-mail them to me on going.
good advice about the JEC. I want to go to maybe 1 or 2 events per year. The Harpenden classic car show mentioned elsehwere is up the road from me, but what I really want to go, is to get on a track with an instuctor and learn a little more about driving it, just to have a bit of extra confidence which will allow me to enjoy its potential a bit more. DC drove it like the wind! and it felt glued to the road.
good advice too about the insurance, come the time I wil make that call.
regards
Guy
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Hi Guy,
Plenty of time to read up on them in the meantime then!
I spent a lot of time scouring all the old car magazine articles, buying original brochures, etc to learn all I could when I got mine.
Clarkes is just 2 miles from me but their quote has still not arrived!!!!!
I hope your experience is somewhat more positive than mine, and that the photo's arrive as promised. No reason why they should not if you are spending the thick end of lots of money......
I was only looking at spending £1,500 - £2,000 on mine with them on service and consumables as I had bought it elsewhere. I had a few things that they thought needed doing, some immediately and some in due course - wheel bearings needed doing, aircon regas, shock absorbers and a few other bits, but the quote I got from them only covered the less important stuff (and still the question as to whether VAT applied or not was never resolved!).
I think you are a far more interesting customer for them and I see no reason why things should not go more smoothly for you. Perhaps the most important thing is to get the car up on ramps when you go to collect it so they can show you what they have done. At the price you paid it should be pretty impressive and comprehensive and you will feel reassured that you have an extremely well sorted example.
The history of the car along with this attention before you buy it should help it to hold it's value, although of course (as you acknowledge) you are paying top dollar (and in return get a fully sorted motor), therefore the potential for future profit might be a little less assured. Still, at the end of the day you will be driving a superb example of a beautiful graceful car that not many more modern cars can hold a candle to, and it is highly unlikely that you will lose money on it in the same way you would if you had spent the same cash on a more modern car of any type frankly.
I look forward to hearing here on progress and more particulary how it is when you get it in August.
You have time to get the insurance quotes too!
Best of luck,
Gavin
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>>Profit...
Nobody buys a highly complex, elderly motor expecting to run it and THEN to sell it for a profit, surely....
I am more than a smidgen jealous.
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Well consider that since I wanted the manual and that they are as rare as rocking horse doos, he had me over a barrel, in fact he wouldn't even conced £250, he wasnt budging at all, so instead I concentrated on the concessions, e.g. the bonnet re-spray which was not a "given", the condition isn't too bad just stone chips, but I wanted it done, and he agreed to that.
I could have walked and bought any number of Autos out there, but I know I would always regret not having got that manual.
So far I have had no pics sent to me, I do sens that I am going to have to be very proactive, chasing him for them throughout, there is something a little "loose" about his helpfulness which it think is what Gavin has picked up on. lots of helpful talk but not backed up with tight paperwork or procedure.
I hope it doesn'a all go to rat pink fluffy dice, but then again I have more than 90% of the agreed purchase price still in my bank not theirs, so won't part with the money until happy.
When I go to collect it, I will take someome with me who will not be emotionally attached to the gleaming hunk of metal, wiating for me to drive home, and to dryly go through the list until satisfied.
Any volunteers (you will need to be around at end August, 1st week Sept, not on holiday?
Theres a nice pub lunch, and a couple of ales at the very least in it for you!
Guy
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 06/07/2009 at 20:22
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Hello! It's Mike Hannon here. Sorry I haven't been able to join this thread up to now - I still have a mystery computer bug that stops me logging into email and here, most of the time.
Good luck with the purchase!
Yes, I am still besotted - not getting enough chances to use ours at the moment, but our visitors leave tomorrow and the weather forecast is good later in the week...
I'm with everything SFD says above - lots of sage advice, etc, there.
Will try to contribute more fully from now on.
PS: yes - be proactive!
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Driver training is a good idea.
A pal of mine worked for Jaguar and did some club-level racing.
Now and again we would go for a blast in an XJ6 or 12 and I was amazed how such a big car could be made to go around bends.
There were several occasions when I thought we were going straight on and I began to assess the scenery to see if we'd get a soft landing.
He had an XJS V12 auto for a while, it just pulled and pulled and...
It would go from 110 to 130 faster than my car would go from 40 to 60.
A manual XJS was an oddball device in those days, bought by someone who wanted one and not wanted by anybody else.
The fact they are now desirable is proof an ugly girl can grow up to be a beautiful woman.
On that basis, I don't think the OP has overpaid.
It's a truism, but a car is worth what someone is prepared to pay for it.
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"When I go to collect it, I will take someome with me who will not be emotionally attached to the gleaming hunk of metal, wiating for me to drive home, and to dryly go through the list until satisfied.
Any volunteers (you will need to be around at end August, 1st week Sept, not on holiday?"
Hi Guy,
I cannot profess to know enough but I wonder if taking another professional could be a possibility?
Keith Parrington at XJ Restorations in Eastbourne (20 minutes from Clarkes) might be prepared to do this for you (although I expect he would want to be paid rather than do it for lunch). Having said that I do not know what the politics are for a local service and repair specialist going in to judge someone elses service and repair. He may be reluctant or may be happy to give a judgement as a specialist.
I came across him at a local JEC meet and he has recently joined their comittee. I have my car booked in for him to look at and quote for the bits and bobs I want to get done at the end of this month, as he came highly recommended to me by another XJ-S owner.
His website is www.xjrestorations.co.uk
I don't think you have overpaid. You are getting what you want for a price you are agreeing to. The manual is rare I beleive and therefore finding a later example with this was quite likley to cost a premium. You are getting the car you want and as long as you get the work done to your satisfaction it should give you many years of great pleasure.
You could contact the Jaguar Daimler Heritage Trust to ask them how rare it really is. They may be able to tell you. www.jdht.com is the website.
I emailed their archivist to ask them about the supposed rarity of the black paint on mine.
Black was the only colour Jaguar charged extra for, with metallics, micatalics and solids all included in the price normally. Therefore I was led to believe that Black was rare and only selected by a minority of people. In fact the reply I got explained that they did not have specific figures on the convertibles but knew that on the earlier Cabriolet they made 5013 and 555 of these were in Black - just over 11%. Crossing a similar number over to the 30,496 convertibles made then there could be 3,400 of my car made in Black.
From the number of registered cars they have detailed knowledge of (you can supply them your cars details and they will send you a certificate including all the data they have on file at Coventry relating to your exact car) they have issued 196 certificates for convertibles and 28 were in black - over 14% leading them to assume it is not as rare as I was led to believe.
If they can give you a comprehensive answer like that, you can see quite how rare your car is.
It is fascinating tracking down details on cars!! I am therefore a mine of lots of useless information!
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Sean at Charlesworth classics has quoted me to come with me for acceptance inspection, he has quoted me a very fair price for his time considering that it is 2 hours drive each way so basically takes a day out. He has my "list" of things I agreed would be done, and will go through them one by one before I hand over my cheque.
I will call DC today and ask for an update (ive not had any photos yet) and also get the VIN number which will help check out the history
GUY
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Hi Guy,
Any news? I guess you might still be away, but it would be good to hear positive news on the work in progress.
There have been some beauties on Ebay recently including a very low mileage one-owner one that went for £12k.
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Hello "slightlyfatdirector" and forum
Yes I am still travelling, currently in Kuala Lumpur, having finished in Borneo, next week Delhi.
Now here's the rub.
I have heard nothing whatsoever from Dave at Clarkes...
1., no bill of sale was ever sent to me despite my asking on the phone and e-mail several times
2., not a single e-mail has been received giving me any update on the progress of the car since the first week after I paid my deposit. This was agreed at point of sale by the way, I asked if whenever they were working on it, they could keep a digital camera handy and send me snaps of it in progress along the way during my travels. I subsequently reminded dave on the phone before I left UK 2 weeks ago, and have e-mailed him twice since leaving uk, and not heard diddly squat, and seen not a single photo
3., today I called and got "sorry there is no answer and you cannot leave a message", strange for any commercial operation.
So I am a little concerned. Is he still there? on holiday? gone under?
Now, you should know that Dave and I did have a disagreement because I asked him to provide me information to help me to stand behind his valuation on the car, and he took real offence, but we cleared that up, and the last time I spoke, it was all very amicable. But certainly he does not take kindly to having his judgement questioned in anyway.
Still, though he has not kept to his side of the deal, he may well be beavering away quietly doing the work, and doing it beautifully, but the point is I don't know that, this is something he doesn't get, he works on a principle that if you can't trust him, he doesn't want your business.
My view though is that I am paying top dollar, and he agreed to provide work in progress photos which I want to help me build a portofolio on the car detailing its history prior to my ownership.
If possible, would you be able to pop in and at least see if he is still in business, perhaps ask if he has any manual 4.0 Celebrations and see if he shows you mine, and let me know what state it is in. (red metallic), 1995,
Regards
Guy
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Hi, I finally heard from ** today, after two weeks of unanswered e-mails. H tellls me the car is coming along and that he will send me some pics soon. The shock though was that he is quoting me a Sept 14 delivery date due to them closing (wedding).
I ordered the car on July 2nd, he quoted me 3 weeks for the works, and then since that would mean it sitting on my driveway during my trip, we agreed he would hang on to the car whilst I was in Asia and I told him I would be back by end of August. I certainly was not told of an end of August closure then.
I have long drives commited on Sept 3rd and 4th, and again 1 week later, so I cannot accept that delivery date.
If (as I had asked 3 times) he had written out a bill of sale, then the delivery date would be on that to refer too, the very reason I asked him for that even on the 2nd July, was to have a documented agreed contract between us to refer to, but despite asking since numerous times I have never had it, not even a receipt for my £1K deposit.
I don't think I am being unreasonable? (tell me if I am), but so far I am finding the buying experience far from satisfactory, it doesn't help me feel good about spending top dollar I can say.
But he has my order, I want the car, I have paid a deposit, and he says he has been working on it, so I don't see that I can back out (nor do I want to), since I would then lose my deposit and probably be liable for the cost of whatever has has done so far on it... I just wish his customer service was up to what I would give my customers in my own (non motoring) business. I would never treat a customer in that way.
Guy
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Ah but you wouldn't really have wanted the oil changing in June, would you. It would have been 3 months closer to its next service date. ;)
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Guy,
I've no knowledge of the garage, but I do know there are still a few businesses around who do things, well, 'their own way' might be the kindest way to put it.
The caravan park where my static is in leafy North Yorkshire is one such business.
Very similar in outlook to the garage, by the sound of it.
The staff are nice enough, it's just that what they say will happen never quite seems to happen.
Promises made, not kept, and when something is done, it's not done the way they said it would be.
Very easy for someone on the outside to say the customer shouldn't have to put up with it, but the attitude from the caravan park is pretty much 'take it or leave it'.
Although it always seems to turn out alright in the end, so I imagine your transaction will turn out the same way.
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Hi Guy,
Ouch!
I had in my earlier posts tried to give an indication of what experience I had had with this company and perhaps had tried to be too balanced about my experience which to be honest was not to my personal (and reasonable) expectations. This was before you agreed to deal too so I had I suppose tried to make you very careful in advance. Maybe I was being too subtle.....
I am trying to be fair and balanced of course, as every company slips up sometimes and should not be critcised for it publicly and without giving them a right to reply, hence my balanced previous comments.
I think my view on this is that I am happy to buy something (particularly something expensive) from someone I have faith in. If I am not happy, I walk away. Especially if the item I want is still available elsewhere. I did this buying my last company car (new BM 5 series Estate) where my most local dealer was completely useless; broken promises, no returned calls, etc, when the next nearest dealer bent over backwards to help and therefore got the order for my car and all future servicing.
There are a number of things that concern me in your post. You have paid your deposit, have nothing (not even a receipt) to prove it. Nothing even agreeing to the promised works on paper. Your customer service experience is perhaps 'interesting' as well. Verbal arrangements are still contractural I would argue.
I think your request to justify the valuation, especially as for 1/2 the price he had another car matching your's spec in stock, was perfectly reasonable. If I was him I would have pulled out a copy of Jaguar World or the JEC mag and pointed to similar adverts for well maintained low mileage examples and backed up perhaps a premium price because of their his specialist knowledge and some form of warranty, that would perhaps have made you feel happy. Taking umbrage seems odd. If in my non-car business I have a customer asking me to justify my pricing (which I do regularly as for the products we sell I appear quite expensive) then I do precisely that. What main dealer would not do the same when told by a customer that they could buy cheaper from a car supermarket? They would argue the case for their locality, personal service, test drives, aftersales support, etc.
I am wondering if when the car gets finished you feel that you will be 100% happy with it when you go to collect it, and that you are certain that the inspection you have done will be 100% to your satisfaction (particularly bearing in mind you have the additional cost of someone coming with you to do it). Have they already started work on it? Really? What happens if your inspector sees 2 or 3 jobs that need sorting? Will you get a discount and take the car away or have to come back another day?
If I had any doubts if I was in your personal position I would probably seek to reclaim my deposit due to none of the agreed arrangements having happened, lack of communication and unable to deliver on time. Up to you though.
The things is that they are really good cars and there are some gems out there. Just a few weeks ago ebay had a genuine 1 owner V12 (I know it is an engine that you did not particularly want but hear me out) with the auto box (ditto), but it was a genuine 8,100 miles from new car. Staggering to find something essentially so new and it generated a huge amount of interest (42 bids). Went for £12,100 which seems pretty good for such a rarity. The manual box whilst no where near as common as the auto was still produced in some numbers. Look at all the racing XJS's out there (Jaguar World does a lot about the XJS racing series) which are all auto cars.
There are a few other gems out there from dealing with deceased estates, or people selling 2nd or 3rd cars they cannot justify owning in the current economic climate. Bargains to be had.
Subscribe to the magazines / club and see what examples are in the back there in the small ads too of cars for sale. There are some gems (including a great stretched version for sale for about £3k!!!).
Why was the other manual example for sale there for 1/2 the price described as being so good when he then is charging twice the price for a car that needs lots of work to bring it to a similar standard is still a question in my mind.
There are just too many alarm bells going off from my personal viewpoint if I was the buyer. Having said that you have found the car you want and are still keen to deal with the company. Perhaps you could go back and say that he either meets your required date for collection or you back out of the deal and claim back your deposit?
Good luck!
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""Look at all the racing XJS's out there (Jaguar World does a lot about the XJS racing series) which are all auto cars.""
I meant Manuals!!
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Just a quick update Guy.
I was at the local club meet last night and met a few new members. One couple bought their XJS coupe from Clarkes 4 years ago and was saying how pleased he was. Not just with the car but also the service over the last 4 years.
I specifically asked them if they would recommend them to another person and they said yes, without question. They had a couple of niggles with the car a year ago and these were sorted out very quickly. Some small things he was not charged for and when it comes to servicing their prices were considered reasonable and communication was good
Other people I have spoken to would not use them, but you pays your money you takes your choice I suppose.
I just thought you would be interested to hear some positive news as well.
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When they e-mailed me the 14 Sept delivery date I emailed them back that this was not good enough since I had placed my deposit in July against a quoted 3 week delivery time.
I got no answer.
I came to the decision that they don't "do" e-mail, and decided to call.
After a few unanswered tries I got through on Wednesday, he assured me all the work was going ahead, listed off tons of things he said had been done to the vehicle, told me it was £7K worth of work. and agreed a Sept 4th delivery date.
He told me that they had been taking lots of photos, but had not had time to upload or email them to me (fair enough, when I collect the car those photos will either be there or not), for the moment I giving him benefit of doubt.
In terms of other XJSs, I want a post facelift, I want a 4.0 manual, not a racing versions (With TWR kit of whatever), and have kept en eye out for alternatives, but not found any. I am happy I have chosen the car I want.
I'm feeling much happier now.
Guy
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Hi Guy,
Good to hear your news and hope all goes well for the 4th. Please update us after you collect your new pride and joy as I hope you will be delighted with it.
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Insurance Woes
I can't get agreed value insurance on this car...
I have tried several brokers (at least four) including Adrian Flux, specialists recommended here, and by Clarkes.
Various reasons given, One broker says it would need to be garaged (I don't have a garage), another said it isn't old enough....
main problem is that I expect to be doing 7000-8000 miles per year which is beyond that which qualifies for classic car status.
I can't see the connection myself, whether or not it is a "classic car", according to whose definition?.
My worry is now that should it be lost/stolen/written off, I have no idea what it will the policy will pay out at, but I will certainly get a valuation done up front by an independant such as
Charlesworth Classics which shows the value at the price I paid.
I've kind of given up on agreed value insurance, and GAP can only be purchase for cars up to 7 years old.
Any ideas?
Guy
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unfortunately guy you have to see it from the insurance side
no garage means a very high risk of it getting broken into to try and steal it (you need a full disc on the wheel)
the mileage is a lot and therefore you are more likely to have an accident,remember this car cant just have a wing and bumper delivered if needed it will have to come from a specialist so the price of repairs can go out of the window if it needs a little pull etc
you really need to reappraise how you are going to use this car
off road secure parking
mileage limit
confirmed valuation
the alternative is normal insurance and a derisary payout if accident your fault
i feel for you but thats how it is in a capitalistic society
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Do you know of anyone locally with a garage spare / to rent that you could use?
Our garage was full of stuff I needed, and I looked at this option before I eventually cleared out the garage and bought a very expensive and large shed to put it all in.
Do you have a flat piece of land at your property to put a cheap wooden garage on? Looking at shed companies, many offer very large garage structutes that they can build for you onto flat prepared land. Not massively expensive and might pay for itself in a year or two with the cheaper insurance.
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IMHO, a car like this needs to be garaged. It won't stay in pristine condition long kept outside regardless of whatever rust treatments it has had. It will do its utmost to dissolve.
Edited by nick on 01/09/2009 at 16:47
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nick its more lowlife he needs to be aware of
they see this and think ooh thats fast we will nick it
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Guys... I live in a private cul de sac, lost of Porches, BMWs here, and no crime... in 10 years there was 1 attempt to take a car from next door (a BMW M3), and a couple of satnavs taken, I dont wat to tempt fate, but we generally have no issues with low life. Opportuniss took a bike once but that has been about it
I have a driveway, but no space to build a lean to or any covering, no garage, nor any that I can rent.
No trees nearby also means no sap falling on it or bird poo either, apart from the odd incident which is never completely unavoidable.
In all the advice given above, todays tips are news to me... I am buying the car and investing in a huge amount of "up front "remedial work in bringing it up to spec, to drive it, and to do so fairly regularly. Albeit not for commuting (I work from home) I only hope you are all wrong. I will wax polish it regularly and am thinking of buying a soft cover for it. it is a modern enough vehicle that I would hope it can stand that. It is fully galvanised, has zero rust at moment, and is being waxoiled before I get it.
Guy
Edited by rtj70 on 01/09/2009 at 17:57
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Lo life won't even know what it is, they will be much more interested in the Porsche cayennes, Boxsters, 911s, and Beemers all driveway parked in the same cul de sac.
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I assume it will have a decent immobiliser on it and possibly a tracker? Low life might steal some cars because they are easy and older cars tend to fall in to this category.
I hope you get the car soon (I recall you go on a trip soon) and it's what you hoped it would be.
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Steering wheel lock, and a decent immobiliser are certainly sensible suggestions and already under consideration.
I am back from my travels, and get the car on thursday
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I am left wondering (others too) why the insurance angle had not been thought of a lot sooner? If you kept miles down then like others I always assumed this was destined to be a classic car for insurance purposes. Why rack up all those miles so quickly in an old car?
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I drive about 8k a year in all, and started looking for a car that would give me a massive smile on my face every time i get in it. No doubt, the XJS is the car for me! I love it. Why would I want to take my daughters Polo, or my wifes MPV on any journey I need to do, that defeats the object if buying the XJS. I might be able to get it down a little (6 - 7K), but the car is not a low mileage example (>90K miles) though thats not that much over 22 years I do get, its attractiveness is not its low mileage, but its lovely condition, new enginer/gearbox within last 3 years, and lots of TLC, plus its a Celebration, plus its a manual, lots going for it. I am just trying to get the best deal on insurance now.
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Best of luck with insurance. And wear that smile when driving and I hope it is reliable.
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I think I will go for the standard insurance products (i don't really have a choice).. but also have a portfolio detailing all the works done, and a valuation prepared by Charlesworth Classics. then (god forbid) if the car suffers a total loss, at least I will be able to appeal convincingly any disappointing valuation. I have done that once before and it worked to an extent.
Anyone have any experience (good or bad) with these? watch the video it looks really good
carcovers4less.com/car-cover-ezcover.html
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Guy: I can't see the connection myself, whether or not it is a "classic car", according to whose definition?
What defines 'classic' depends on what you're being asked to pay for (tax, VRT, insurance etc). The thinking behind it is that a 'classic' car isn't driven much other than for weekend jaunts to shows and concours competitions. Hence, the cost of repair might be high if you have an accident, but the chances of having an accident are minimal.
As BB points out, an Actuary will calculate that your odds of an accident or theft are high because you're driving an older, powerful, car, so their odds of an expensive payout on an agreed value policy are also high.
If I were you, I'd make sure your insurer of choice at least accepts your valuation on the car before you take the policy. You don't want to hear them say after a minor fender-bender "well, yes, sir, we know your valuation says £12,000, but ours doesn't, so we're writing it off as an uneconomic repair and no, sir, its not our policy to sell write-off cars back to customers"
(I mention the last point as it came up on another thread recently. I've also recently learned that my own insurer's policy is to auction write-off cars - I suppose its easier for them, and they can justify the sale prices to their auditors on the basis that they got what the market was willing to pay for each and every wreck sold.)
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Hi Guy,
I bought a large car cover from Halfords that is breathable and cost about £60. Money well spent.
It is one of their premium ones and fits the car well. I know via ebay you can buy a tailored one for the XJS too. I have no experience of the ones in your post though but hope someone else might be able to help.
You must be excited about tommorow and I hope all goes well and that you leave with a big grin on your face.
When I park mine up when it is not garaged I have a stoplock that I also bought on offer from Halfods and mine was already fitted with a Cobra immobilisor that seems to work well and is a doddle to use day to day.
Frankly any low life is looking for an easy to steal car and would rather get the keys for a nice BM / Porsche via the letter box of a house than try and fight through all the fiddly things like crook-locks and immobilisor.
I am with you on driving the car day to day but also came across the garage stipulation for agreed value classic insurance, hence the shed. I think you will just need to do all you can to stop it being nicked, and drive it like the pride and joy it will be. If a moron does hit you then all you can do with an insurer is fight your corner with the details you have.
Why not call the Jaguar Enthusiasts Club and ask for some advice regarding the insurance? They must have come across this problem before. 0117 969 8186.
Look forward to hearing how the collection and drive home went.
Wet and rainy here in Sussex today so I am hoping for a bit of an improvement for you.
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Hi Guy, I didn't realise it's galvanised, you're in with a chance then! I've seen too many older ones. I'm in two minds about a cover, I've heard pros and cons about moisture retention even from 'breathable' covers and rubbing on the paintwork in the wind over time. I've never used one so I can't really comment. If you are using the car regularly then I think I'd not bother. Just use plenty of Dinitrol underneath every year.
Good luck with it and keep us posted, it's a lovely car.
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but ours doesn't so we're writing it off as an uneconomic repair and no sir its not our policy to sell write-off cars back to customers"
you should never lose sight of the fact that YOU own the car and YOU will decide what happens to it....all you've done is pay a premium for a company to insure it
I had all this in the past on my old Triumph, just prior to putting it on a Classic policy. All that flannel about 'send us the MOT and we'll see if you can but it back'
....what Cobblers, I told them "it's mine, I own it, you are never going to have ownership....now how are you going to recompense me"... took a bit of arguing and had to go to the insurance co. management, but won in the end. They are far too keen to stick to what's simple for them, rather than what's good for the customer.
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Would a locking, hinged bollard on the driveway help?
I know it's a bit of a fiddle to operate, but might be worth it to keep the insurance company on side.
I've never been keen on car covers - too much chance of scratching the paint as you take it off and put it on.
My back yard has no roof, so my cars effectively live outside.
I keep them fairly clean, but always well polished, and have never had any problems.
A locked garage promotes condensation so being in the open might even be better.
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Guy
Using a car like yours for 8,000 miles a year and keeping it outside is not likely to be a good experience for you or the Jag.
Find a garage for it, and drive it on sunny days and Sundays - you'll both be a lot happier.
MVP
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This particular jag was made in 1995, it is not THAT old, and to be advised that it needs to be garaged is a bit of a shock. I know the XJSs were in production for nearly 20 years, so keeping an early one mint I could imagine a challenge, but garaging mine is NOT an option as I said above, and a 1995 car ought to withstand the british weather if well look after, no rust yet, fully galvanised body, waxoil treated, and going to be looked after well by me. Wax polished about once per month.
Insurance is sorted,
www.lancasterinsurance.co.uk/classic_car_insurance...m
helpful on phone and good on line too, policy is a classic car policy from Allianz with 10,000 cap, and agreed value, all boxes ticked, £320, compared with £477 from Adrian Flux. Includes MLP, and Key Cover too. Thats with my history of 1 claim 2 years back too.
Guy
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...polished once a month...
Just the job - it will be in its own wax garage, impervious to the elements.
And 8,000m a year is a sensible mileage, not too many or too few.
It ought to be able to do double or treble that - provided it's got a tow bar for the fuel bowser. :)
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Thanks, I did just make a sanity call, I have an independant classic car specialist local to me who will be looking after the oily bits during my ownership, he confirms what I knew already...
Post facelift the car was effectively a new model
Fully galvanised, and much better build quality
Should be fine outdoors.
Incidentally he rates these cars very highly, and has previously given me a thumbs up on the valuation.
He agreed with with the sentiment expressed here when considering older XJS, but not a late 1995 Celebration.
Anyway, the deal is done now! if itemised, all the pre delivery work done by Clarkes would cost around £8000, so I am hopeful for a reliable experiene, collect it tomorrow,
Look out for broken down XJS on M25 around 4pm?
(only kidding)
Guy
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First, hats off to Clarkes, as readers will know I had my frustrations with them, mainly due to lack of communications promised, but in the end decided to give them benefit of the doubt that in the background, what was agreed was being done.
I was right to do so.
The preparing of the car prior to my collecting it has been superb. The quality of re-spray where required is tip top, the diamond polished original wheels look great, the new exhaust thrums beautrifully, new disk, and pads and new front calipers, mean the brakes are superb. Minor cosmetic issues internally that I highlighted all addressed. Completely new aircon system up and running beautifully, Waxoyled to the nth degree, new radiator fitted (over and above what was agreed)
Dan (daves son) had a portfolia of photos on a CD for me showing work in progress as agreed.
All works documented in paper as agreed too.
So in terms of their attention to detail - no issues - reservations continue over their communications approach, but once I realised that phone (and even for that you have to persist) is the only way to get anywhere, I overcame that.
So then came to drive it home. Got stuck in Tonbridge, stop/start traffic, which was not too pleasant, stalled it once on a hill (stil getting used to hill starts and handbrake operation in it which are a litte unconventional - remember it is a manual).
Stopped at bluewater to pick up daughter, found handling around a car typical retail car park a bit of a challenge, due to length ,
but the more I drove it on moving roads, the more I liked it.
Original jag audio system is fine, but volume control (two small buttons) is completely inaccessible behind the gear knob, I think I will change it and get something with a remote control stalk.
Stopped for a drink and missed having somewhere to hold a water bottle - no cup holder of any sort anywhere.
Rear visibility appalling, so will get rear parking sensors fitted asap, I knew this in advance.
Passenger door interior release handle does not return, you have to push it back, before door can be closed. That is the only "preparation" issue I can find, which really is tiny compared to all the good things I have reported.
Dave C told me about a pull up and over "armadillo" type tent/cover, not a fitted cover, not a semi permanent cover, when not in use it folds in to place on ground level, where it fastens to driveway. He wasn't sure who makes it... any ideas?
Guy
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I should add, 1 hour after getting home, phone went, it was neighbour, nice woman, know her well, lives opposite, good friend, her call was just to say "Wow... COOL CAR!!!" have never had that in my 20 years of car ownership, nor would I have got that if I garaged it... :-))
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Glad all the garage stuff came out o.k. Have to admit reading this thread I did wonder...and no doubt you did too! Goes to show there are decent folk out there. Shame we have to be so careful to miss the rogues.
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Try a UK web search for 'folding garages' and all will be revealed. Here's one to be going on with:
www.canopiessouthwest.co.uk/car_ports_perambulator...l
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Great news Guy. Even my wife was asking me last night how you got on!
I am pleased that your experience with Clarkes was OK in the end (if a little frustrating and concerning in probably equal measure)
Great to hear that you are happy and I wish you many happy years with what (as you rightly point out) is a COOL CAR!
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Let me just add my congratulations.
And it's nice to know that my initial impression of Clarkes wasn't mistaken.
I concur with all you say about getting used to the length, lack of rear vision, etc - I'm over 6ft but with the hood cover on I can't see a darned thing, except with the door mirrors. Driving on the narrow back roads around here is a bit of a nightmare too, especially as the French always drive in the middle! And hill starts with a manual and the fly-off handbrake must take some getting used to, I find that the handbrake warning light is just too dim when seen through sunglasses.
Anyway - the benefits far outweigh the niggles, so enjoy!
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A running report thread would be good !
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I have posted some photos on my Picasa site, and on my Facebook page,
picasaweb.google.co.uk/guygampell/Jag?authkey=Gv1s...k
dont know if that link will work if not, anyone who wants to see these can contact pugugly moderator to who I have sent a link, kindly leave a message there (on picasa) if you have a look with your HJ forum member name so I know whose been to see the pics, they still aren't the best pics, the darn car is SO Long its a challenge fitting it in the frame!
Guy
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Thanks guy - lovely looking motor - especially that interior shot. I want one so much.
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Lovely car. But maybe hide the number plate in the photos?
If only I could afford to have a car like my uncles XK150.
Edited by rtj70 on 04/09/2009 at 23:17
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not sure how do "fuzz" it,
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A great freeware picture viewer/editor is IRFANVIEW. (Just google it)
I just downloaded one of your pics, and cropped out the number plate in 10 seconds.
Great car, by the way! Now I know what all the fuss was about. No wonder that you had some anxious moments along the way - when the prize is worth having it makes anyone nervous!
Many congratulations. and I hope that you get years of happiness out of it.
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It looks lovely and it has been a really interesting thread to follow. I agree with Pug' the interior shot really caught my eye too. (Sorry couldnt work out how to leave a comment on Picasa)
Good Luck with it - so come on how many times have you just sat in it or found an excuse to get in and check out the controls or the handbook ? :-)
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number plates gone... thanks for the tip
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Wow, tasty. Same colour as mine. Shame we don't live closer, we could do a double act - an open and shut case!
Just out of interest, when I was in the UK last week I got Halfords to mix me a flamenco touch-up stick (just in case...) and it's a better match than the original Jaguar one, now 14 years old of course, that came with the car.
Happy motoring - they say you'll get 30mpg too!
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That looks gorgeous! Lovely colour too, really suits it.
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love the interior
it looks brand new
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I forgot to say, re your mention of nowhere to put a bottle, last year when we were looking around we found a really smart dark blue 4 litre facelift convertible. It had been a bit 'customised' with a frenched-in high level stop lamp and (rather tasty) big three-spoke alloys. But the guy had also cut two cupholders out of the centre armrest.
Don't ever, EVER be tempted to do that! Best to go thirsty...
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number plates gone... thanks for the tip
You can still read most of it in pic 7. Nice car btw!
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Hi Guy,
I've been watching this thread with great interest since the beginning and can honestly say you've got a fantastic motor there. I'll echo what's been previously said and state, COOL CAR. Awesome.
Glad it all worked out for you.
One thing though, pic 7 is still showing your number plate. I'd hate for some low life to take advantage.
Once again.... Nice one!
Regards.
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Pic 7 sorted, thanks
Thanks all for your help and encouragement,
If anyone is interested, I have uploaded a small selection of photos taken by Clarkes during the restoration, these are the ones that I was hoping would be e-mailed but never were, but as explained I decided eventually to give them the benefit of doubt, heres the proof of the work being done...
picasaweb.google.co.uk/guygampell/JagReconAtClarke...k
Guy
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there are loads more but that'll do for now
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The car looks absolutely beautiful. No wonder you are proud of it.
I thought mine looked good, but the face-lift later versions certainly have a bit of extra class (body coloured bumpers instead of chrome and rubber ones, etc).
Pugugly, why not go for it? Life is for living after all!
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Guy,
That is a truly beautiful car. I'm very jealous and hoping more than I normally do that my numbers come up this weekend. Hopefully Derren Brown will help me with that...
You must use any excuse that you can to drive it, and be very glad that you gave Clarke's the benefit of the doubt. I hope you have many years of happy driving in it.
Cheers.
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I do love a happy ending!
Looks great and after the frustrations with Clarke's it's great to see that they came through in the end.
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>>Why rack up all those miles so quickly in an old car?
It's not like having a bull nose morris! It's a modern car. It's not expensive - many posters on here would think nothing of spending that - or twice - or four times - that on a car.
What's the point in running a rubbish motor when you have one like that? :Drooooools:
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>>Why rack up all those miles so quickly in an old car?
>>It's a modern car. It's not expensive - many posters on here would think nothing of spending that - or twice -or four times - that on a car.
Not in the same league i'd accept...but...I have a 10 year old S Type. I pay to have it running perfectly and any little thing wrong is put right straight away.
It might not be worth it in comparison to the value of the car...but it is when you think what i'd lose in depreciation on a new(er) one....and i don't want to drive around in a shed with half the things not working.
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The more I drive it, the more I love it. I have bought a lovely Sony audio system for it with Blutooth handsfree, and USB memory stick input etc. Plus rear parking sensors. Getting both fitted on Monday.
Mrs G won't drive it though, she loved the Merc CLK and misses it.
The XJS polarises people, I have been accused of driving a Del Boy jag by one friend (ignorant eh?). Most love it.
Point is simple to me, I do a LOT of errands for the family putting myself out time and tiime again for one daughter of other, now it's a pleasure! Thats what I meant when I said "why would I drive other car when I have the Jag sat there" its there to put a smile on my face... period.
Its a bit wayward in cross winds I found though. And have not driven it in the wet yet.
LOVE IT!
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If this were a Facebook entry I would hit 'like'.
You will never avoid the knockers - I well remember the first time I went to an event with my Mk 2 years ago. Within five minutes some clown tapped me on the shoulder and said 'you do realise your car is painted with two-pack, don't you?'. Just tell them the XJS might look a bit big and flash but it's actually a far superior car dynamically than an E-type and might, with justification, be called 'the last of the genuine GTs' - as in Grand Tourers.
BTW, I haven't driven mine in the wet yet either, although when I went to see it first we did a trip, with the previous owner at the wheel, up and down a bit of the M1 and through west Yorkshire in absolutely torrential rain at, shall we say, high speed and it seemed to behave just fine. And the roof didn't leak...
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Just a quick update (basically in praise of Clarkes).
The works they did included new Aircon compressor, condensor and piping, so I was a bit miffed when the aircon let go a couple of weeks ago, a puddle of coolant was on my drive way (it had the green dye in it that aircon specialists use to check for leaks with UV).
I popped the bonnet up and rang Dave, he asked he to check one particular spot (original part not recently replaced), and sure enough it was clearly the point of failure.
Decided to drop it back to Clarkes at some point - non urgent.
Last week, I did that, and gave them a short list of small "de-snaggy" type things, they tended to everything and have not charged a bean (well i did spend a lot on the car in the first place).
Again their comms aren't great, they have no ansaphone and don't respond to emails, but I have found that if you call (and get no ansa) then call back again, they answer on second time of calling, and on phone their support is tip top.
Glad to share the positives.
Car still turns heads and splits opinions.
My nicely resprayed bonnet has picked up 2 nasty stone chips already!
Anyone know a bonnet protector? seems you can get them on EBAY for SUVs.
Also, rather late in the day, I noticed that no front fogs are fitted, where can I get the correct type of lamps as close to original as possible.
Guy
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Hi Guy,
Only just seen your update.
I would have thought Clarke's would have a set of fogs from another donor car they could supply to you. Might be worth a call. Gruglogger (type it into Google) also are a good source for Jag bits and are very helpful. Not horrendously far away from you if memory serves me correctly. Drop them a call or email and I am sure they can help.
A company I saw at a show recently offering tinted windows also were promoting a stone-chip protective film that can be applied to various sensitive parts of any car as an aftermarket product to protect against stone chips. I cannot remember the company's name but I think this is a generic product widely available. They stick the film to the car and then apply a heat gun if memory serves correct. It is slightly visible to someone looking for it, but generally is unobtrusive.
So how many miles have you put on the car? Still pleased as an ownership proposition?
Mine has been off-road (so to speak!) to have a few niggles sorted (including the aircon) and getting it waxoyled and prepared for winter. Weather has been filthy here so I have not missed it as I only really want to save it for dry days (top down of course!).
Hope all is going well.
Gavin
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Hi Guy - thought I'd just chip in.
I've been out with the beast today, there was a little break in the wet weather we've had over here too so we put a few miles on popping out to the post. Didn't get it dirty and another downpour started five minutes after we got back - ha ha.
The left-dipping headlight units from SNG Barratt (who made the conversion) finally arrived last week, after nearly three months, so the car is now fully road-legal in France at last. Had a delightful drive back from the test centre in the dark on a mild evening with the roof down. I've decided not to put it away for the winter unless the weather turns really awful - they don't salt the minor roads round here which is a big consideration - and all my Jaguar friends say it'll be best to exercise it as often as possible, not to mention giving the aircon a regular run. We shall see...
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Hi, sorry not to respond sooner, I haven't been checking the HJ forum for a little while
Here is an update
Love the car every time I drive it, it still puts a big smile on my face whenever I turn the key.
I am driveway parking it (no garage) but make sure I drive it at least a couple of times per week to give it run, warm it up, get the fluids around, and shake the water out
It was fully waxoyled by clarkes in September.
I do have some niggles which my local fella is tending to (clarkes are too far away).
First (now fixed) was that the power steering sprung a leak so whenever I was arriviing anywhere and doing parking maneouvres (lots of full lock), it was leaking on hot exhaust manifold and smoking like a maniac, clouds and clouds of smoke, very dramatic
now fixed
remaning issue is that something is robbing power out of it, power delivery is smooth, but it feels flat out at 80 in 4th and 90 in 50th, nowwhere near capable of the stated 147mph. Two possibilities being investigated (again by local fella)
1. Air Mass Sensor
2. Somethin in the exhaust area
re 2... at moment, there is nothing coming out left tail pipe, remember it is a newly fitted sports exhaust from the CAT rearwards, so either it is blocked or the exit from the CAT or the CAT itself have problems.
Being investigated tomorrow.
Annoying problem is that the carpet rucks up under the pedals too, almost every time I drive it, I have to straighten up the carpet first, it just doesn't seem to want to stay where it should be.
Some interior switches don't seem to have back lights, they light when switch is on, but others have a back light even in off position.
turning circle is dreadful, I never noticed when test driving it, but I can't reverse it off my drive and drive away without an extra turn maneouvre.
But I love it, the ride quality and road holding combination are sublime, not soft and wallowy, but not bone shakingly firm.
the manual gearbox is hard work BUT I LOVE IT! I don't care that the gear change feels like a lorry, it improves as the car warms up, and I just love love love the control having a manual gives me, and the effort need to change gears just makes me feel "I am driving the car", not been carried along by it which is how I always felt with my CLK320, which was never engaging to drive
Since I doubt any readers apart from me have driven manual XJS 4.0 (they seem so rare), I am probably sounding like a nutcase, but I feel completely vindicated choosing the manual. it makes the car for me.
It is getting rained on very very hard at moment though...!
Guy
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one other gremlin to report
Front left headlight is wierd
something happens at each level, side, dipped or full beam, so I don't think any bulbs are out, but whatever the setting its barely brighter than a few candles!
Will get that checked out too.
guy
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Getting somewhere in solving the mystery of performance loss
I had a new performance exhaust fitted from Cat back, and noticed nothing coming out of left tailpipe. Got it on a ramp Friday, and checked a few things, nothing coming out of left CAT, output from right CAT is not all the great either, blocking it forces litte if anything out the left (contrary to what you would expect) so downpipe and CATs (it is twin cat, the manifold splits before the CAT) need replacing.
Blue Flame (who supplied the Exhaust from Cat back) want about £400 for this but I also found EBAY item no: 190328830437 or 130335476931 at about half the price
Any recommendations? or experience with these?
Guy
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my goodness! Car transformed
I took careful advice, Blue Flame quoted £600 for the cat/downpipe, and there were some real cheap ones out ther on EBAY, but the advice I took was that the Cat Converters on those is not all that great and wouldn't withstand long useage at the high pressure from the AJ16 engine. More than one person advised me on this, and also Sean (my local fella i trust alot) said these could be hard to fit to the Blue Flame cat back I already had.
Local company hand built me a free flowing sports cat and fitted it, £450 all in.
I just got it back and took it for a drive
OH MY GOODNESS !!!!
I went from bleedin eck, to snip - please refrain from posting blasphemous comments - see the "Welcome, please read" sticky post for more info, through the whole range of excited expletives even less printable! the performance is transformed.
I am so glad I did this now, rather than after a year or 2s ownership.
During the 20 minute blast I just had, I was for the first time experiencing how great the brakes and handling are too, since I was putting those to the test a litte more, by the fact that I was giving the car "the beans" so to speak.
At all times it felt totally confident, stuck to the road, and fully sorted.
Someone said to me recently, Aston Martin fun at a fraction of the cost, I know what they meant now!
Edited by Dynamic Dave on 09/12/2009 at 19:03
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Excellent! ;-))
I wonder how it ever got through an MOT?
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Because the Cats were blocked, less emmission not more would have been coming out, but I would have expected it to have been noticed.
BTW, I spoke to Bodygaurd.co.uk today about paint protective film, they can do the bonnet for about £200. Seems like a fancy type of sticky back plastic, but the case studies of Ferraris and Lambos all look awesome on the tinternet
Will have to wait until january though, two children have birthdays in December, plus XMAS (four children total), and the Sports Cat just ordered.... hmmmm you don't want to see my credit cards!
Guy
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Hi Guy,
Good to hear all is now well. Having not had this issue I had no comments to add on the exhaust side.
I am a bit perplexed that you do not appear to have involved Clarkes in this. How could this lack of power not have been obvious to them when they were fully sorting the car?
I would be mightly miffed, - particularly as they are the XJS 'experts' - and with years of experience as to what is right and what is wrong. It would have been apparent when they gave the car a 'shake-down' drive before you collected it that something was amiss would it not? Particularly as the car seems to have been transformed after a decent exhaust has gone on.
I would be sending them the bill for the new exhaust. Have you contacted them to discuss?
I would be very upset if I had been through the similar palaver, particularly as you did pay top money to get the best car and therefore best service to you.
I appreciate that they are not on your doorstep, but I would have got them involved. Having to fork out another £450 (particularly on the run up to Christmas!) is not on.
I am feeling annoyed for you as it seems unfair.
What you paid for the exhaust would probably have treated all the front stone chip risk areas on your car with Bodyguard wouldn't it?
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...bonnet stonechips....
Don't follow the car in front quite so close before you execute the slingshot overtake. :)
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Fair point about Clarkes, but here is some additional background
The works they did which were included in the purchase price, were extensive, indeed i have had the car inspected independantly since, by Charlesworth Classis, and his comment was that Clarkes "have spent a bomb on the car".
However. the works done within the purchase price did NOT include the new exhaust system which they fitted from Cat Back, I paid extra for that, it was the only extra on top of the purchase price. So had I chosen to also replace the CAT I would anyway have had to pay for it at the time.
I did return the car to them a few weeks back complaining of loss of performance but DC told me the carpet was rucking up under the accelerator pedel - indeed it does do that abd is something I now watch out for.
So whilst I am miffed they never spotted the CAT was blocked - very miffed infact - i can't prove it was blocked when they had the car (though certainly I suspect it was), and I still would have had to pay for the new CAT had I asked them to fit one,
On to last week;... i did in fact call Clarkes and he offered me a similar aged CAT off another vehicle, but advised (correctly I beleived) that it would like go same way soon, and not give me the performance I sought. Since as I say the upgraded exhaust was over and above the "paid for price", what matters to me is that I got a price of £600 directly from Blue Flame, £200 or so for some cheap CATs which I have been advised against, and for £450, (fitted) and nicely in the middle, i got the top of the range hand built and fitted by a local specialist (who prepares racing cars) Free Flowing Sports Cat, and it has done the job.
I can't stop smiling every time I drive the car. Mildly miffed with Clarkes , yes.... would it have changed the outcome if I had involved them? ... no, in fact they would have fitted Blue Flame and charged me more.... am I happy.?.... YES!!!!
I gave the car a lovely clean and polish yesterday too...
Guy
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Hi Guy, Fair enough. The extra background puts things into perspective. It was my experience there (I still await the elusive quote!) that made me feel a bit miffed for you. Us XJS owners should stick together!!!
Interesting about carpet sliding under the accelerator. I have has this before (on another car) with it rucking under the brake pedal, meaning I nearly crashed at a roundabout by not being able to apply the brakes fully.
Having seen pics of yours she is a beauty and must look fabulous after a polish and I am pleased you get so much pleasure from it.
Everyone should have at least one for a while. I know that you me and Mike Hannon all paid 'proper' sums of money for ours, but there are still some relatively cheap gems out there that people should not be scared of because they think big engine = big insurance (as generally with these it doesn't).
OK, fuel costs are high for all of them and they are maybe not suited for big mileage on a regular basis because of this, but the 'smiles per mile' are very good.
And what other graceful car can you get for similar money that has the character? Also depreciation should be negligable, and running costs via specialists all over the place are low.
Every home should have one ;)
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Everyone should have at least one for a while. >> Every home should have one ;)
I had mine when I was 21. Bottled it and got rid rather quickly as the running costs daunted me. Bright red with black leather, auto V12. 'OFF413S' where are you now?
Thinking back on it, being a typical 21 year old i'd have had no licence and no job if i'd kept it. Fantastic car though.
A mate of mine and I were both petrol heads and over a period of time with some money in our pockets and still living at home we had some cash flow so had started to buy decent cars. It inevitably became a bit of a challenge to outdo your mate on your next car purchase. His father was my insurance broker, so obviously told his son when I bought the Jag. He rang me and just said "you win", there was no real prospect of him beating 5.3 litres and V12.
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